Cables … it just keeps on being a heated subject. April last year, we did one of the largest cable tests ever done (at least: we have not been able to find any other tests larger than this one): 32 interlinks and 32 speaker cables. We listened to the cables and measured them through to see if there were any correlations. That test taught us a lot.
Joakim Juhl was also intrigued. And after we tested one of his speaker cables, he got in touch. It took a while before we both found some space in our schuedules, but now we finally could sit down and have a talk.
In this interview, we discuss OePhi’s vision. According to Joakim, what is important when designing a good cable? What elements play a role? Does the perfect cable actually exist? And is it measurable at all?
Now, we “only have an hour,” so by no means everything will be covered in detail. But should you find part two interesting; let us know in the comments!
Relevant articles
Kimber – Dyrholm – OePhi Reference
Was negative in my previous post, that’s because I have problems with people like Joakim Juhl who give the impression of knowing a lot but basically know nothing.
Nevertheless, he constantly explains his results, the good sound, the holly Gral, in technical terms. So-called storytelling in his advertisements. No measurements, no data; all information is replaced by irrelevant, undocumented technical or material and sound-related buzzwords, which is what gives the industry a bad reputation for snake oil, etc.
And I see no reason for a part 2, as the status is stated in the 5-10 minutes of the video. We know nothing, but have a lot of observations that often contradict what we can measure.
Here are my observations and those of others on this subject
If you cover a copper cable with a thin layer of silver, the sound changes in a noticeable way—something that shouldn’t happen. This is a technique used and is necessary at very high frequencies because the signal travels along the surface of the conductor rather than inside it, as in audio. You can also cover it with gold, which changes the sound in a different way—the opposite of what silver does. Or thinning the conductor, which will soften the sound. You can also anneal or freeze or sandblast the conductor, which will also change the sound.
All of this alters the sound in ways that typically cannot be measured in the audio range, but most of it can be measured at very high frequencies (in the MHz range).
Here are a few examples of other components that also change the sound audibly in a way that should not happen.
Decoupling capacitors can, in addition to their electrical function, change the sound depending on which decoupling capacitor you use.
This also applies to coupling capacitors and resistors. Connect a very small capacitor in parallel across a much larger coupling capacitor 2nF//10uF; if the two capacitors are not of the same type, this can also be heard. Electrically, it cannot be measured or explained, but it obviously happens anyway.
Why can we hear this? That’s the question.
It can be simplified further. NLE (Niels Larsen) was another well-known Danish hi-fi manufacturer. Niels Larsen is very precise and scientific. When he was going to manufacture his cables, he had heard all this talk about the difference in sound between silver, copper and gold, so he manufactured the same cable design with copper and silver respectively and heard a significant difference that he had absolutely not expected. He tried again to replace the copper with gold in his signal cables, heard a significant difference again, and chose gold. If you cannot afford gold for the entire conductor, a thin gold coating of silver may be an option.
As mentioned, Niels Larsen is very scientific and he did not understand what he experienced when experimenting with this. Perhaps even ASR and Audioholics and all the others who only draw conclusions based on measurements might also be surprised if they carried out the experiments described, but it is probably so far-fetched in their opinion that it will never happen.
We can continue with insulation materials. There are differences between plastic types and natural materials like paper, cotton, silk, etc. The next point is damping, which you can surely measure the effect of, but it’s still hard to predict how big an effect it will have on the sound.
The easy thing to do is, of course, to ensure the greatest possible measurable technical precision and quality – good connectors, good noise reduction, etc. But as mentioned in my first post, even the cheapest cable can transmit the signal perfectly if it is not defective.
So, as in many other hi-fi cases, what we can measure tells us very little compared to what we hear in terms of parameters,, timbre, life-like sound, soundstage , rhythm, perceived resolution and more.
If this is to be solved with measurement, I believe we should focus on measuring what we actually hear, which is a very difficult and imprecise measurement. Perhaps measuring the output from headphones could be a
more accurate method.
It’s incredible that someone can talk for so long instead of just saying, ‘I don’t understand.’ If your cable changes the signal in the audio range, it’s an incredibly poor cable, which means that whether a cable is expensive or cheap, it transmits the signal the same way. This has been proven countless times.
So what makes the difference, even though you may not believe it, I agree that cables actually make a difference, and this applies to all types of cables that can be extended to all passive components.
I don’t know how this happens, but one thing is certain: it has something to do with the materials that are chosen and used. All materials seem to have a sound signature that brings you closer to lifelike sound, or further away from lifelike sound, and this applies to all passive components, capacitors, resistors, coils, etc., and this knowledge can only be gained through listening experience.
I ask why we should constantly listen for hours to people like Joakim Juel who do not get to the heart of the matter. Which is that we know nothing.
I don´t agree. I like this content very much, to get the views from the manufacturers as well.
This doesn´t have to exclude anything else. The more interviews like this, the better, as i see it.
We don´t have to watch it.
It’s perfectly fine if you want to listen to another hour of storytelling, but I don’t feel like it. The first hour has confirmed my belief that many cable salespeople bombard customers with talk that they try to make sound more or less scientific, which of course it isn’t, because it lacks both measurements and theory.
The vast majority of cable customers are helpless in the face of this manipulation; they lack the necessary insight, and the salesperson knows it.
A side effect of this is that it gives the industry a reputation for only selling snake oil, which in the long run will destroy our hobby and the high-end industry.
Jaap Veenstra outlines how things actually are in the last five to ten minutes of this video, where he explains that we actually know nothing; we only have listening experiences and hypotheses.
Thank you to Jaap Veenstra for stating it as clearly .
But i respect all the measurements Alpha Audio has made; they have done an excellent job
Yes please. Give us more! This is highly interesting. Lets dive more in to the science behind good cable design. Absolutely NOT Snake Oil B-)
We are working on new episodes!
Beste Jaap, wat een informatief interview. Maar niet alleen informatief. Het uur was zo voorbij, dus ook boeiend en begrijpelijk. Je merkt dat jullie beiden ook gefascineerd zijn. Hoop dat er een vervolg komt
We zijn bezig met het opzetten van een vervolg!
👍🏻
Dat is goed nieuws 😁